1968 Rayson-Craft 18' Jet Resto Project
- Thread starter SyTy Speed Shop
- Start date
Devilman
Well-known member
Color looks good. Guy named Daryl Graff had his Liberator wrapped. Its a combo of the American flag & the Texas flag, he calls it the Patriot. You can find him on the THB FB page quite a bit. I've never seen it in person, but it looks pretty good in the pictures I've seen. He's in the Houston area so you may hit him up, see who did his & how it's holding up.
If you end up getting those old slot mags, I'm sure you know you'll have to get the shank style lug nuts & washers to go with them... just wanna throw out there to beware of the cheap washers that normally come with them (the ones I've seen at the parts places anyway). They are very thin & not big enough diameter & have a tendency to get smashed down into the wheel when tightening them up. I bought a set of Cragar brand washers from Jegs, but I'm sure you can get them elsewhere... Being made for those old school wheels, they are larger in diameter & way thicker material. Hold up way better. Just a heads up....
If you end up getting those old slot mags, I'm sure you know you'll have to get the shank style lug nuts & washers to go with them... just wanna throw out there to beware of the cheap washers that normally come with them (the ones I've seen at the parts places anyway). They are very thin & not big enough diameter & have a tendency to get smashed down into the wheel when tightening them up. I bought a set of Cragar brand washers from Jegs, but I'm sure you can get them elsewhere... Being made for those old school wheels, they are larger in diameter & way thicker material. Hold up way better. Just a heads up....
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
Patchman said:
Yeah Ive always loved these wheels too, and the boat will atleast be covered and possibly stored inside depending on space when i make my next move and become a home owner, right now its sitting in my driveway at the Townhome i rent, i can get enclosed/covered storage about 10 mins from my house for 55 a month that has a dirt floor, but trying to hold out on any extra expenses right now for as long as i can.
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
Devilman said:
Yeah on my first car i had a set of these slot wheels and used the cheap lug nuts and washers from the parts store at first and they sucked, i think i ended up buying a lug nut/washer set from Summit that was made my Crager but cant remember now, that was many moons ago...
Ive probably seen that boat on the FB page, will have to send him a message and ask a few questions, thanks. EDIT: Found him and i remember that boat, twin turbo LS and its for sale, 18K turnkey!!!!
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
Ok, its time to talk about the engine for this beast! I originally and still think it would be cool to build a 427, and i can get a GM forged steel crank turned 10/10 with rod/main bearings for 300, 410 for Speed Pro forged pistons that at a 16.8cc dome, and then im looking for a set of GM "Dimple" rods as a lower cost to aftermarket rods. I found a guy local on CL that has a set of Edelbrock Performer RPM Oval port heads that he had on a Rogers Cyclone for about 4hrs that messed up the bottom end, heads are complete with aluminum roller rockers for 2000. I already have the Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT EFI intake and 90mm throttle body, and the 2 1/4 Rewarder Headers, and the 10dt Dooley Oil pan, also have the edelbrock timing set for the gen 6 roller cam block and all the gaskets to get it together. I can probably make ~600 HP with this setup spinning around 6K RPM which should be a nice runner and be fairly reliable and im not sure how fast it will make this old float, but im thinking it will scoot along pretty dam good and i can be around the 3500 mark total for the engine.
On the other hand i was thinking about building a 496, using AFR 290 oval port heads and having the heads and my intake ported out with a custom cam to make somewhere in the 700-750 range, but at a cost of atleast double the other engine.
On the other hand i was thinking about building a 496, using AFR 290 oval port heads and having the heads and my intake ported out with a custom cam to make somewhere in the 700-750 range, but at a cost of atleast double the other engine.
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
DISTURBED said:
Well i wont take offense but i will agree to disagree....lol
Has anyone ran Hyperutectic pistons in a jet boat? if so how did they hold up? They are probably not worth the gamble but just thought id ask.
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
DISTURBED said:
Seriously? That bad? LOL I can do alittle better than a stock engine, but one thing im concerned about with the 90K miles gen 6 454 i have is the fact that its a cast crank/cast piston engine and im pretty sure the rods are the powdered metal type with 3/8 bolts. So im pretty sure it would hold up for alittle while, but i don't see it being all long till im having to pull it back out to rebuild, so i was looking at a few different ideas to make some decent power and keep it fairly strong and reliable.
I learned the hard way about family lake boats! They were designed to run 50 ish, and for what it costs to push it beyond that, just ain't worth it! :smile30:
With the exhaust on that thing and a decent cam, it will have that cool factor and be fast enough! Trust me! :smile30:
With the exhaust on that thing and a decent cam, it will have that cool factor and be fast enough! Trust me! :smile30:
Knotty Girl
New member
60 mph is fast enough on the lake. If you want to go fast build a race boat and go to a track. The lake is not the place for going fast. Yep I am old. My .02
73 Sanger Flat
Active member
I agree with what they are saying .. I had a old LS6 -454 and it would push my V-Drive 82-85 MPH all day long and never had to work on it .I could run 28 miles to the dam and back in Granbury without having to worry about anything . It ran 8 years like that .. Then I got this dumb ideal that I wanted to go faster .. Bought a 509 high compression engine and jumped to 102-104 mph and ever since it is more of a play boat than a lake boat .. Constantly working on it or breaking something .. Build a solid 500 Horsepower BBC and go have fun .. When you decide to go faster , get a better hull and then upgrade the engine at that time .. Enjoy the lake boat for a few years first , then build you something to play with .. That is just my 2 cents ..
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
Brazos River Rat ( Billy ) said:
Yeah i know what your saying, Ive been there with a few cars Ive built over the years. I don't mind minor maintenance here and there, but def don't want to take it out and worry everytime i decide i want to drop the hammer about it. And with the engine i have i don't think id get that reliability with cast parts!
So, Ive come up with this build that should make some good power, and hopefully will be reliable. Ive been pricing out a 454 forged crank and they are almost twice the cost at the low end of what i can get a factory GM forged crank to do the 427 shortblock. And i trust a remaned GM forged crank more than a Chinese cast steel crank for the same ~300 bucks, and the reman crank comes with rod and main bearings, a set of L2300NF30 Speed Pro Forged pistons, there are the same as the old TRW forged and are on the heavy side but dam near bulletproof, a good set of file fit moly rings, and a set of Scat I-beam rods with upgraded ARP bolts will be more than strong enough, i was looking at a set of SGI rods on ebay, they offer the I-Beam for pressed fit pistons for 168 bucks for the set, or 255 for an H-beam set, but then they also recommend that you upgrade there cheap bolts with ARP and then your at the same price as the Scat and to be honest i trust the Scat rods more so ill go that route, then then needed machine work and having the assembly balanced, already have the 10qt Dooley oil pan, then was looking at the Comp Extreme Marine cam, 242/248@.050 with .572/.572 lift with the 1.72 roller tip rockers i have.
On the heads, i have compete comp cams/ARP upgraded parts for the vortec 454 heads, only stock parts left are the valves and at 2.062/1.72 was thinking about seeing what it would cost to upgrade them to 2.19/1.88 and these have 100cc heart shaped chambers and the intake runners are ~260-270 and actually have decent flow numbers in stock form, the bigger valves will help and then some minor port matching to my intake and the headers and they will support ~550, just heavy as hell! Also with the 16.80cc dome TRW's and these heads at zero deck height and a .040 head gasket im at 10.5-10.6:1CR, and with the cooler running temps in a boat and fully adjustable timing via the EFI i think i should be fine on 93 pump gas, and should be in the 450-500 range spinning a max of 6500.
I read a HotRod mag article where they pulled a stock stock Gen6 454 from the junkyard, put an edelbrock performer RPM air gap intake and 750 carb and MSD ignition, and with dyno headers and only a comp cams extreme marine 230/236@.050 .547/.547 lift on a 112, which is one step below the cam i listed above, with the stock 9.1:1CR and the needed valve spring upgrade, but still running the stock net lash rocker arms the engine made 428HP/507TQ. A little more compression and cam and i think your getting close to 500, maybe alittle more.
Also if i go this route, i cam have my Berk pump rebuilt and keep the aluminum impeller for now, or i think ill be fine, and not be dropping a ton on getting the pump freshened up and ready to go.
OK, sorry this got kind of long, but does this sound like a good plan for a fun, semi fast and reliable boat that will look awesome and should sound pretty dam good too!
whitetrash148
New member
To give you some idea on engines in a jet boat-horsepower to weight to speed. I'am running a 4 bolt main bbc 460ci. , balanced rotating assembly, approx. 10 to 1, alum. heads, rect port, biggg valves, cam over 600 , 1050 holley, BC worked imp. all in an approx. 350 lb. 18' tunnel. in quarter mile it will go 75 to 80 in 12 seconds . this is not a lake boat, it is about the cheapest way to drag race a boat. Stay with a stock engine for your lake boat. old saying rings true---don't race your street car and don't street your race car!
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
DISTURBED said:
That is def going to get done.
Just talked to a local reputable performance machine shop that ive use din the past, Griggs Performance in Spring Tx. Was quoted 900 to clean and degrease the block, install freeze plugs and cam bearings, bore it .030 over, install the pistons on the rods and balance the rotating assembly, around 100 more if mallory is needed to balance and also deck the block for zero deck height.
I asked his opinion on the stock vortec heads and he said he doesnt have much experience with them, but to do bigger valves, and surface them and bowl blending would be about 700 or so including the valves, and i already have all the rest of the valvetrain parts needed.
I also read some info on offshore boat forum that says these vortec heads can support 550HP in stock form, so i may be better off just getting a good valve job done and surfacing them to square them up and run them. Like i said with a smaller cam and 1.5 less CR this engine made 428/507 on the dyno with no accessories and big tube dyno headers, so i should be 450-500 with more CR and more cam, and this old float should run pretty good.
73 Sanger Flat
Active member
So true -- it takes a lot of HP to get a boat to run fast on the water .. Those yellow GPS devices sure have hurt some feelings at the lake .. I swore I was doing over 100 and they come back and it is in the 70's .. Build a nice warmed over BBC and go have fun ..whitetrash148 said:
Sounds like you are headed in a better direction at least. Like they are saying, horsepower isn't going to be beneficial in your hull. If anything it will be more of a hindrance. The best way to look at boating is too not build an excuse to not go boating. What I mean is, you can drive your daily driver anywhere, anytime. Hit the key, it will always start and perform as expected. Stock power plants have a very broad power range. In your jet boat, it will be under a load the minute you start it. So your power range needs to be idle up to maybe 5,000 - 5,500 RPM. This will allow you to have great all around performance, especially pulling skier or tuber what ever. If you build power that has 3,000 - up, good chance that most of the time you won't be in your power band , or you will be right at the bottom of it. Your boat will be sluggish to get on plane. You can change impellers, but it's like putting 4:56 gears in your daily driver. So if you put today's mild 400 hp big block in, you have more power than the boat ever had from the factory, and it will run great and sound better than most of the boats on the lake! Especially better than those whackers. :smile30:
Basically most of the guys here have done what you are wanting to do at some point in their lives. I guess we are voicing our findings and trying to save you the frustration. Gull wings and tunnel hulls are fast for jet boats! Heavy lake boats don't like the higher speeds that today's power are capable of! Plus there are concerns of hull conditions like hooks that need to be considered! If you are new to jet boats, and think that you mite want to settle in too this hobby, don't build a nightmare. Build it fun and reliable. Nothing worse than being on a broke boat! Especially if there are spouses and children involved. They usually don't like Fast nor loud! That has been an observation of mine for the last seven years! There are always a few exceptions to the rule, but I wouldn't bank on it on my first go around.
:smile30:
Basically most of the guys here have done what you are wanting to do at some point in their lives. I guess we are voicing our findings and trying to save you the frustration. Gull wings and tunnel hulls are fast for jet boats! Heavy lake boats don't like the higher speeds that today's power are capable of! Plus there are concerns of hull conditions like hooks that need to be considered! If you are new to jet boats, and think that you mite want to settle in too this hobby, don't build a nightmare. Build it fun and reliable. Nothing worse than being on a broke boat! Especially if there are spouses and children involved. They usually don't like Fast nor loud! That has been an observation of mine for the last seven years! There are always a few exceptions to the rule, but I wouldn't bank on it on my first go around.
:smile30:
SyTy Speed Shop
New member
Patchman said:
Well yeah def makes sense, and my girl likes to go fast and there are no kids, which is probably why i can have a project like this anyways! I think i got a good current build plan and will stick to it, with the only exception being an upgrade to some nice aluminum heads to save weight if i have the funds.
Also, while this boat is heavier than alot of boats out there at 950 lbs for empty hull, this is the same bottom hull that Rayson-Craft used for there race boats as a v-drive setup, and these were built to go fast and last, just so few were built as jets.
Thanks for all the advice, and this my first(well second)boat period jet or otherwise so i will continue to have lots of questions.