Brazos River Rat ( Billy's ) Update

[Carnivalride]

Not sure what RPM will be safe , but it does have all the goodies in it ..Yes I do have a playback tach that I can play back and look at what is happening .. Not sure on the vibrating except with my prop . I was not paying attention on bottom end when I was testing other props ..
I don;t think i would be picking on you , you have your boat dialed in .. Mine is slow
So maybe spinning it to 7000 would be safer then at the top end or out the back door ???
I will get some good number and then we can talk .. I do need a new prop .. That will be the first thing I buy after the first test run .. Then test again and see what I need for gears ..

Billy, you need to try and get it geared close to where you want it when you’re trying props. The gear and prop need to work together with your engines power curve. If my guesses are right on your power I’m betting on a 1.22% with a prop like mine, maybe 1.25% if you only run it in a 11” diameter version (I’m running 11-1/8”x16). Accurate data helps and the GoPros work well because you can listen to the engine to for stumbles or hesitation off the hit. I'm guessing your effective power range to be 5800-7200rpm so I’d be looking to flash it about 6500, pull down to about 5800 and then run out the back about 7200 on a 1/4 mile run. Of course your dyno numbers will tell how far off I am on that guess.  think.gif

 

[jimsplace]

For what it's worth, I have always decided what  maximum RPM was practical for my motor and geared it to turn near that number regardless of whether it be out the back door or when the prop hooks up on the flash.

I would think with good parts, 7500 is probably OK, but with the stroke being used, I'd probably want to turn a little less to save the motor.  It will really depend on what the dyno shows as a result of how the engine is set up.
V-Drives are a lot like cars in that they tend to like lots of RPM, it does make them quicker.  I assume that's the goal.
It's seldom we intend to run anyone for top end across the lake in a runner bottom.  If that is the case, then run big gears. 
Still, it is all a matter of the right combination.
Whatever is decided, that TR-4 is up to the task and will do its part.
  :smile17:

 

[Carnivalride]

For what it's worth, I have always decided what maximum RPM was practical for my motor and geared it to turn near that number regardless of whether it be out the back door or when the prop hooks up on the flash.

Jim I agree with picking a practical maximum RPM for your engine and building it around that number. However I think the gear and prop have to work together to make the boat run it’s best and IMO that means you have to choose a prop and gear combination to flash, pull down and run out at certain rpm based on your engines power curve.

I would think with good parts, 7500 is probably OK, but with the stroke being used, I'd probably want to turn a little less to save the motor.  It will really depend on what the dyno shows as a result of how the engine is set up.
V-Drives are a lot like cars in that they tend to like lots of RPM, it does make them quicker.  I assume that's the goal.
It's seldom we intend to run anyone for top end across the lake in a runner bottom.  If that is the case, then run big gears. 
Still, it is all a matter of the right combination.
Whatever is decided, that TR-4 is up to the task and will do its part.
  :smile17:

Yes it is all about the combination and making all the parts work together as well as you can.  :smile30:

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Only time will tell what the set up will be .. just would like to get it dialed in early spring so I can enjoy some events this year...
I am thinking with a new prop and maybe the 22's will be close .. But with all the torque it is going to make , who knows until we are on the water testing ..I would prefer to be over driven to save the engine than to turn it too high and hurt something ..
I guess once I get the Dyno numbers , I will call Menkens and get a new prop ordered .. Galen got his from Tom Bently , so I guess that is who I will call and deal with .. I think there is a Dallas also that sells Menkens props ?? I do not have his info ..
I not into racing people , i like to just go out and have fun ..

 

[Carnivalride]

Only time will tell what the set up will be .. just would like to get it dialed in early spring so I can enjoy some events this year...
I am thinking with a new prop and maybe the 22's will be close .. But with all the torque it is going to make , how knows until we are on the water testing ..I would prefer to be over driven to save the engine than to turn it too high and hurt something ..
I guess once I get the Dyno numbers , I will call Menkens and get a new prop ordered .. Galen got his from Tom Bently , so I guess that is who I will call and deal with .. I think there is a Dallas also that sells Menkens props ?? I do not have his info ..
I not into racing people , i like to just go out and have fun ..

Tom Bentley was selling Harold Kindsvater props and Harold retired so I'm not sure Tom has props anymore. I dealt with Dallas and had good luck. You can either ask Dallas for what he recommends or if you could borrow some props and find one that works well then you can send it in for him to measure and talk about what you would like it to do better. That's what I did and and after one trip back to him for a tweak I'd say he pretty much nailed it. Bill Diez has the Precision props now too. I have numbers for these guys if you need them Billy.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Thanks Loren I will get the numbers from you later .. I will most likely just have Dallas or someone build a prop to what they think I will need and then adjust around it and then have them tweak it some if it needs it later .. I want a new prop so I know it is not hurt and will not come apart unless I know the person I am getting it from ..
My old prop does pretty good , it was up at the top two when I tested prop about 3 years ago , so maybe I can send my prop out to them and they can look at it and build a new one like it , but with more bite at takeoff .. Then they can freshen it up the old prop  for a back up.
Loren - what was the cost on the prop ? 800 -850.00

 

[Carnivalride]

Thanks Loren I will get the numbers from you later .. I will most likely just have Dallas or someone build a prop to what they think I will need and then adjust around it and then have them tweak it some if it needs it later .. I want a new prop so I know it is not hurt and will not come apart unless I know the person I am getting it from ..
My old prop does pretty good , it was up at the top two when I tested prop about 3 years ago , so maybe I can send my prop out to them and they can look at it and build a new one like it , but with more bite at takeoff .. Then they can freshen it up the old prop  for a back up.
Loren - what was the cost on the prop ? 800 -850.00

The prop was $710 but he didn't tell me has to charge 3 or 4% if you pay with a credit card until he was ready to ship it, so shipped it was about $750. In hindsight I'd just send him a check but oh well. He was easy to work with and he did the tweak when I sent it back for free and now the prop works better than anything else I've had under the boat so far. In fact I am very happy with the new prop.

 

[galen]

I am really thinking peak power in the 6600-6800 range. Max rpm 7000. Going to play with a few different carbs and valve lash on the dyno to see how close this cam is. Compression using diamond pistons calculator is 10.2. Billy I will send some more pics to you. Blueprinting the oil pump and getting it, the pickup and pan on today. Possibly the valve train.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Thanks Galen I think you are right on the peak horsepower RPM .. The old engine peaked at 6600 and torque at 4900.. So this engine should be close .. Can't wait to see  you Galen .. I will post pics when I get them ..

 

[Devilman]

Good thread. Congrats Billy on getting that power plant together, you'll be tearing up the water in no time.

 

[jimsplace]

Galen

I look forward to you getting back down south next summer.
Hopefully, we'll get some water in the rivers so we have good places to go, it was kind of crappy this year.
Even though Billy didn't have his Cole to play with, he didn't miss much.

Next year should be exciting with some pretty good running boats in this area, Billy with his Cole and new motor, E.O. with his Tom Papp boat, Ken with his Tom Papp, Wayne should  have his Blown Sidescraft running, your
Hemi Hydro, Tony's blown Cole and my Cole.

I'm sure there will also be other up-graded combinations too.  Of the ones i've just listed, all but Tony's and mine will be faster and more potent than their owners have been running.
That's a lot of firepower.
    :smile17:

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Can't wait to get back on the water . Not sure if my little power plant will make more power than  last time out , but it will be a lot cheaper to run and more dependable .
Can't wait to see that black boat back on the water .. Does he have the blower on it ?? I thought it was just tunnel ram for now ??

 

[Carnivalride]

Can't wait to get back on the water . Not sure if my little power plant will make more power than  last time out , but it will be a lot cheaper to run and more dependable .
Can't wait to see that black boat back on the water .. Does he have the blower on it ?? I thought it was just tunnel ram for now ??

Don't be modest Billy  :smile30: I'd bet money those heads are an upgrade as well as the intake. Along with that Galen is verifying everything and making sure your valve train geometry is correct. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if it makes as much peak power as it did last time and holds that power over a broader and higher rpm range.

Can't wait to see you driving it and having fun again!  :smile17:

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Thanks Loren .. I know Galen is making it right for me and it will last a long time .. I always like to under estimate the HP and if it exceeds my expectation , then it is just a big bonus and more enjoyment ..
I think is will be close to the old HP number to be honest .. But I will be trilled to death at what ever HP it makes .. I missed having the Cole on the water last year .. The Pontoon was fun , but that fun only last so long .. I need that adrenalin rush that you get with these little boats ..

 

[Carnivalride]

Thanks Loren .. I know Galen is making it right for me and it will last a long time .. I always like to under estimate the HP and if it exceeds my expectation , then it is just a big bonus and more enjoyment ..
I think is will be close to the old HP number to be honest .. But I will be trilled to death at what ever HP it makes .. I missed having the Cole on the water last year .. The Pontoon was fun , but that fun only last so long .. I need that adrenalin rush that you get with these little boats ..

Look on the bright side (for you) it'll make more power than mine...........  :smile25:

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

That does not mean it will be faster than yours ..  :smile25:  I be happy to keep up with your boat .. That will be fine with me ..  :smile27:

 

[ChryslerJet]

Galen

I look forward to you getting back down south next summer.
Hopefully, we'll get some water in the rivers so we have good places to go, it was kind of crappy this year.
Even though Billy didn't have his Cole to play with, he didn't miss much.

Next year should be exciting with some pretty good running boats in this area, Billy with his Cole and new motor, E.O. with his Tom Papp boat, Ken with his Tom Papp, Wayne should  have his Blown Sidescraft running, your
Hemi Hydro, Tony's blown Cole and my Cole.

I'm sure there will also be other up-graded combinations too.  Of the ones i've just listed, all but Tony's and mine will be faster and more potent than their owners have been running.
That's a lot of firepower.
    :smile17:

Jim would be great to be out there with ya'll.  God willing I will have a boat out there too this year.

 

[galen]

Galen

I look forward to you getting back down south next summer.
Hopefully, we'll get some water in the rivers so we have good places to go, it was kind of crappy this year.
Even though Billy didn't have his Cole to play with, he didn't miss much.

Next year should be exciting with some pretty good running boats in this area, Billy with his Cole and new motor, E.O. with his Tom Papp boat, Ken with his Tom Papp, Wayne should  have his Blown Sidescraft running, your
Hemi Hydro, Tony's blown Cole and my Cole.

I'm sure there will also be other up-graded combinations too.  Of the ones i've just listed, all but Tony's and mine will be faster and more potent than their owners have been running.
That's a lot of firepower.
    :smile17:

Last year was tough Jim. Things just did not fall into place for a lot of us. We are really looking forward to getting down more. Always enjoy just hanging out and talking.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Head and oil pan and water pump is on...

Galen is thinking maybe after Christmas while we are there visiting , it will go to the Dyno  .. I am super excited about Galen doing this engine and then we get to go watch the dyno run .. That will be a first for me

 

[jimsplace]

Billy, that looks awesome.
Santa may have a tough time getting it down the chimney and into a stocking.
At least it doesn't looks like you will be getting a lump of coal this year, hopefully.
I'm looking forward to seeing the blue boat in the background in the water before to long too.
  :smile17: