Crusader Project

Becket

New member
Crusader said:
We went to Discount tire yesterday and bought two new tires for the trailer. Here's a picture of my eight year old daughter holding a tire for me. She's wearing her "lake hat" too.

Heading for Broken Bow in the morning!!!

3a4f90b2.jpg
Several years ago I went to Discount tires to get trailer tires, I told them what I wanted, Size and all, the guy asked me what they were for, I told him a Boat trailer, He said "we don't sell Boat trailer tires", I just turned and walked out.

Can't fix stupid!  crazy.gif
 

Knotty Girl

New member
I bought all 4 of my trailer tires to my boat there and had them put on too.  I guess they new it went on a trailer.  crazy.gif
 

Crusader

Moderator
We just returned from broken bow with the Crusader and she ran very well. I noticed on days one and two that the oil pressure was slowly decreasing throughout day one from about 60psi warm to 40psi warm. On day two the pressure maintained about 30psi through most of the day. Then when running from the cove to the ramp, it dropped to 0-10 psi. The motor was running fine, no chattering of the valves or anything.

So I borrowed Matt's mechanical gauge only to discover similar oil pressure readings.

I talked to a few Ford guys and they recommended changing out the oil filter because some of the cam grease and assembly lube could have clogged the filter. I thought filters had a bypass...none the less I changed the oil filter and had the same low to no oil pressure readings. I still have the Joe Gibbs 30w break in oil in the motor and plan to change th oil and oil filter to hopefuly wsh out the motor with fresh oil before tearing into the motor again.

I hope this fixes the problem and I don't have a spun or stacked bearing.

Any thoughts??

 

CarbonMonoxide

New member
Cut open the oil filter and see what you have in the pleats. 
I had my last engine, a 455 Olds, that started at 40psi cold. Warmed, it was 8psi at idle.  That would scare the crap out of anyone, but the engine never let go. As a matter of fact, it's still out there running.
 

neverenuf

New member
Crusader said:
We just returned from broken bow with the Crusader and she ran very well. I noticed on days one and two that the oil pressure was slowly decreasing throughout day one from about 60psi warm to 40psi warm. On day two the pressure maintained about 30psi through most of the day. Then when running from the cove to the ramp, it dropped to 0-10 psi. The motor was running fine, no chattering of the valves or anything.

So I borrowed Matt's mechanical gauge only to discover similar oil pressure readings.

I talked to a few Ford guys and they recommended changing out the oil filter because some of the cam grease and assembly lube could have clogged the filter. I thought filters had a bypass...none the less I changed the oil filter and had the same low to no oil pressure readings. I still have the Joe Gibbs 30w break in oil in the motor and plan to change th oil and oil filter to hopefuly wsh out the motor with fresh oil before tearing into the motor again.

I hope this fixes the problem and I don't have a spun or stacked bearing.

Any thoughts??

Get with Paul Kane (lakesonly) on 460ford.com    btw....which oil pump are you running? pressed in pick up tube or bolt on? The oil pump bypass spring could be stuck or broken. the pickup tube screen could be clogged or the tube fell off?
 

Last Mohecian

Administrator
PYMTTC  (Pull Your Motor, Take To Calvert)  You are gonna keep dinking around and tear up some good parts.  That's all I have to say about that.  Good luck with it.
 

txliberator

New member
Last Mohican said:
PYMTTC  (Pull Your Motor, Take To Calvert)  You are gonna keep dinking around and tear up some good parts.  That's all I have to say about that.  Good luck with it.

X2
 

blazeracer

New member
neverenuf said:
Crusader said:
We just returned from broken bow with the Crusader and she ran very well. I noticed on days one and two that the oil pressure was slowly decreasing throughout day one from about 60psi warm to 40psi warm. On day two the pressure maintained about 30psi through most of the day. Then when running from the cove to the ramp, it dropped to 0-10 psi. The motor was running fine, no chattering of the valves or anything.

So I borrowed Matt's mechanical gauge only to discover similar oil pressure readings.

I talked to a few Ford guys and they recommended changing out the oil filter because some of the cam grease and assembly lube could have clogged the filter. I thought filters had a bypass...none the less I changed the oil filter and had the same low to no oil pressure readings. I still have the Joe Gibbs 30w break in oil in the motor and plan to change th oil and oil filter to hopefuly wsh out the motor with fresh oil before tearing into the motor again.

I hope this fixes the problem and I don't have a spun or stacked bearing.

Any thoughts??

Get with Paul Kane (lakesonly) on 460ford.com    btw....which oil pump are you running? pressed in pick up tube or bolt on? The oil pump bypass spring could be stuck or broken. the pickup tube screen could be clogged or the tube fell off?

It's a Melling oil pump with a bolt on pickup screen. I had the same pump in both of my motors and they did the same thing, lost pressure over time. Something else I had that is also on Cliff's motor is the WRONG and very small oil filter because the stringer is too close to the block. It' supposed to have an MGL8 filter but has an MGL16 instead. It fits but only has half the capacity of an MGL8.

My theory on it is that there is not enough volume to cool the oil and it's overheating and destroying the viscosity. You'll see when you change the oil and the pressure returns. Mine did the same thing. I think you need to get the remote back on it with new lines and a correct MG-8 oil filter that holds a full quart. The length of the line and larger capacity of the oil will help the oil run cooler and last longer. Your engine temp is going to read cool because the motor is cooled with lake water, but the oil can heat up significantly and with no volume to help it cool down just gets hotter and hotter. Guaranteed that stuff is hitting 350* inside the main bearing journals. 

Another theory is that with the tight bearing clearances that motor has you may need a lower viscosity oil because of shearing. Also, synthetic oil has a greater resistance to shearing than conventional oil. Get the remote filter back on and go with a 10w40 synthetic and your woes may go away. That's what I'm going to do on the Enforcer motor, and add an oil cooler.

Clean oil with the viscosity of water indicates a shearing problem. Not a ring problem, not a blow by problem, not a water problem, but a shearing problem. Shearing happens on the top of the rod bearing when the power stroke pushes the piston down trying to force the oil of out the gap between the bearing and crank journal. Too much heat and the molecules have a hard time reattaching to each other. Too little clearance and the larger, higher viscosity molecules get crushed. I measured the clearances and they are within automotive specs. Increase oil capacity and run a synthetic lower viscosity oil. 10w40 max.

The common denominator between our motors is that little oil filter. Maybe some Ford guys can chime in.

 

Crusader

Moderator
Thanks James. My first priority when I return from Waco this week is to get new lines for the remote oil filter and get that installed.....along with an oil changed.

I really appreciate your help this weekend and with the motor James.....you're the man.
 

neverenuf

New member
I run the Wix 51068 oil filter without problems it is a shorter version for my stringer clearence....but it is not as small as the MGL16......the MGL16 is a house brand filter from oreillys?

Also if you don't want to run a remote filter Ford makes an 90 degree filter pad adapter for the 460
 

Gold Member

New member
Cliff when you replaced the stringers are you sure when you installed the motor mounts that you didn't move them too far back? That will eat the bearings up quick!
 

Crusader

Moderator
Bobby. I have a 3 point mounting system. The aft (3rd) point is the bell housing of the motor attached to a specific point on the pump. I'm almost positive that the motor is in the proper place and not binding the bearings.
 

blazeracer

New member
Crusader said:
Bobby. I have a 3 point mounting system. The aft (3rd) point is the bell housing of the motor attached to a specific point on the pump. I'm almost positive that the motor is in the proper place and not binding the bearings.

With the three point mount I'm 100% positive the motor is exactly where it is supposed to be.

Yes, the MGL16 is the Orielly house brand. I think it's just too tiny. You'll get a half a quart more capacity with an MGL8.
 

Crusader

Moderator
That's my plan Jasson.

I'm going to get some hose and fittings from Hosefast in Garland on Friday for the remote oil filter system I have. Then I plan on using the normal sized oil filter, drain the break in oil and fill with the Rotella-T and run for a few minutes looking for an increase in oil pressure. Then I'll drain the rotella and fill it back up with 1/2 Molbil one synthetic and 1/2 VR-1 and go wit that mixture.

If the oil pressure doesn't increase with that action then I plan to yank the motor and see what's going on.
 

Patchman

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think the oil or filter is the problem. I've done a number of BBF's and with crapped out oil, they still hold decent pressure. 70 psi to 0-10 psi range, I'd look for bearing material or metal in the oil or filter! Sorry on the bad news Cliff! Matt has made the best suggestion ( pull it out before it gets real spendy)! :smile18:
 

Disturbed

Active member
I know it's already been suggested but, I'd like to suggest it again.  Cut open the old oil filter and inspect the pleats BEFORE you waste some good oil.  You may find a whole lot of bad news or just some really good news.  :wink:
 

blazeracer

New member
Dirty oill and crapped out oil are two different things. His oil is completely clean with the consistency of water. I've seen this before. Wouldn't hurt to cut the filter and take a looksy..

---- QUOTES ----

Thermal Degradation

When motor oil is heated beyond a certain temperature, it will start to degrade, even if there is no oxygen present. This is called thermal degradation and causes the oil to change viscosity (a form of oil breakdown). The thermal stability of motor oil cannot be improved by use of additives.

Shearing
Many people use the term “oil breakdown” to represent what they think is a motor oil that has “broken down” and is in need of changing, when in reality the actual process of “ oil breakdown” is not properly understood. The correct word for this is oil breakdown due to shear forces. An internal combustion engine imparts high shear forces on motor oil, which is sandwiched between two rotating or sliding forces under load and heat.

The molecular structure is essentially torn apart by these mechanical shear forces. The component of the oil that is affected most by these shear forces is the viscosity improvers. These viscosity improvers allow the manufacturer of the oil to create multi-grade oils suitable for a wider temperature range of operation. The end result of these shear forces is a decrease in the viscosity of the oil, as well as a decrease in the viscosity index.

Once motor oil has sheared beyond a specific point it will not revert back to it’s base structure when it cools down and the shear forces have ceased. This applies to petroleum oils only, synthetic motor oils are extremely resistant to the detrimental effects of shear forces. Another way to explain this phenomenon is as follows: If you look at the molecular structure of motor oil under a microscope, you will see chains of molecules grouped together and linked together. The smaller molecular particles are attached to the larger ones. As oil shears, these smaller molecules break away and align in the chain.

As engine heat and shear forces continue and increase, these molecules break away from the base structure and, in the process, provide less and less resistance to wear. If this shearing and excessive continues over an extended period of time, engine damage can occur. If shearing is only mild, then when the oil cools down the structure will revert back to its original structure and still be capable of providing proper engine protection. Multi-viscosity petroleum motor oils are more susceptible to shearing than straight weight petroleum motor oils. As previously mentioned, synthetic oils are extremely shear resistant and less prone to oil breakdown.

---- END QUOTES ----

I firmly believe this is what is happen to your motor due to the tight bearing clearance causing the shearing to begin with being compounded by thermal degradation not allowing the oil to reconstruct completely upon cooling. The end result of this is CLEAN OIL WITH THE CONSISTENCY OF WATER. Heavy weight oil is not a solution. Today's motors are built with very tight clearances, hence the need for 5w30 oils with lots of additives. I would not run anything heavier than 10w40 and make it synthetic if possible. Another cause, actually the most common cause of shearing is tight cylinder to wall clearance. I didn't measure that and assumed Calvert had it right.

Call Wayne Calvert and ask him what oil you should be running. He picked and machined all the parts in that motor. I just assembled it. I'll bet money oil pressure comes back with a new jug of Rotella in it. Both of my motors were the same. Great oil pressure with new oil every time out that faded quickly. You got 20psi back when you changed the filter, but guaranteed, it was because the oil cooled off and partially reconstructed. The filter had no dog in the fight on that one. If the old one was plugged it will bypass anyway.
 
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