what happen here ?

[73 Sanger Flat]

Look at this and tell me what could cause this ? We think we know , but would like to see what everyone thinks ..
All I have to say . I was lucky as hell .. Glad I finally decided to pull the heads ..Glad I did not fire it up at the Toys for Tots .. 

 

[Trigger]

Looks to me like bad valve train geometry. Too long of pushrods? Looks like the rockerarm runs off the valve and tried to open the valve with the retainer. The locks didn't come out because the valve bottomed out on the body of the rockerarm before it released the lock. Lucky lucky you didn't drop a valve.

Just a shot in the dark!

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

I think the geometry was close . don't think that caused it. The one with the retainer almost gone , the geometry is way off on that one because of the way spring is pushing it off to one side .. 
I know -- LUCKY LUCKY
I have to get a new cam now .  A piece of the retainer hit the cam lobe .. 
We think it the wrong springs or the wrong retainer .. Lock how the retainer sits on top of the springs

 

[Trigger]

Judging by pic 2 I would say it definitely has the wrong locks. Not 100% either way on the retainer being wrong but those locks should be fully closed.

 

[Disturbed]

How close to coil bind are you?

 

[Trigger]

How close to coil bind are you?

Ding ding

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

How close to coil bind are you?

I did not check coil bind before I removed the heads .. I would think it would have bent a pushrod first instead of breaking a Titanium retainer ..
To us it look like the wrong retainer , on how there is a gap under the retainer and spring .. Both of the breaks are right at the end of the spring ..

 

[Trigger]

If it has the wrong locks then the retainer doesn't seat properly against the spring. Sounds like what you are describing. Maybe an 7* lock in a 8* retainer?

 

[Patchman]

I'd lean towards coil bind myself. Just depends on how good of a pushrod you have. How many Rpm does it spin up? think.gif

 

[Patchman]

It looks like to me that the keepers are setting in the retainer just fine from this angle. One other question would be as to age or time on the retainers. With high spring pressure, maybe they are getting fatigued. I know the boats get way more time on the motors than do the drag cars, and drag cars freshen their motors up often. At least the ones who run serious lift cams and high spring pressures. Man you are one lucky Dude! :smile30:

 

[ChryslerJet]

My vote is the wrong retainers.  I always thought the retainers should cover the springs.  On all these pics there is at least 1/16 of an inch showing around the outside of the retainer.  Maybe they were single spring retainers on a double spring.

Look at pic 2 the inner spring doesn't sit on a flat surface on the retainer.  If the inner spring was coil binding it would stress that or push out on the outer spring because it sits on and angled section of the retainer.

It also could have been a combo of that and in pic 3 the rocker seems to be hitting the retainer or a possibility that it could have been hitting the retainer when the valve was fully open on the corners of the rocker outside the roller.

 

[jdeaton]

Lucky is an understatement!  Go immediately to your corner Stop and Rob and buy a Powerball Ticket!

 

[Patchman]

Lucky is an understatement!  Go immediately to your corner Stop and Rob and buy a Powerball Ticket!

Right!
Here is a link to a company that claims to make a serious retainer! Check out their 600 series.
http://www.racingsprings.com/ValveSpringRetainers

 

[Knotty Girl]

Was the last time you ran it at Steel Creek when we were there?

 

[FL350]

Wrong retainers and locks. Seen that before the outcome was worse. Whew you dodged a bullet.

 

[Patchman]

Looking at the first pic with the retainer intact next to the broke one. The retainer mite be on the small side. think.gif

 

[Trigger]

Wrong retainers and locks. Seen that before the outcome was worse. Whew you dodged a bullet.

Are we the only ones that see the 1/8" gap in the locks? It may not be THE problem or the only problem but it definitely is a problem.!

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

The retainers were the only thing that was not new .. I had a very good mechanic that works at Rehr Morrison come by and look at it and  tell me he has never seen a retainer do this ..
Spinning it to 6500 rpm only 
Henry - yes Steel Creek was the last run on it
I see the lock is not completely around and it . not sure if they are wrong also ..
The new heads are going on , so i don't need to but any retainer or locks

 

[FL350]

Billy years ago I had the very same thing happened to me on a complete turnkey boat I bought. After I dropped the valve and tore the motor apart that's what I found out. Funny just a couple of weeks ago I threw that broken retainer in the trash.

 

[Patchman]

Wrong retainers and locks. Seen that before the outcome was worse. Whew you dodged a bullet.

Are we the only ones that see the 1/8" gap in the locks? It may not be THE problem or the only problem but it definitely is a problem.!

You are correct man. That gap is huge! :smile20: