STEELE CREEK SEPT 13

[73 Sanger Flat]

Guessing -I would say 200 more HP more than it was running with 1/2 the skag out of the water and I have heard that before , but did not think my slow boat would be affected by that .. . I agree I need the prop under the boat to get more bow lift .. So maybe it is time to just get a new prop and see what happens then . I hate to cut the strut down but i will if I have to .. I will have to do it in place , I am not taking the engine out to get to the bolts .. I going to try and get all the prop to strut and plate measurement this weekend and then I will call Dallas .. His number is 602-525-1336 correct .. What is the turn around on his props ??

 

[Carnivalride]

Guessing -I would say 200 more HP more than it was running with 1/2 the skag out of the water and I have heard that before , but did not think my slow boat would be affected by that .. . I agree I need the prop under the boat to get more bow lift .. So maybe it is time to just get a new prop and see what happens then . I hate to cut the strut down but i will if I have to .. I will have to do it in place , I am not taking the engine out to get to the bolts .. I going to try and get all the prop to strut and plate measurement this weekend and then I will call Dallas .. His number is 602-525-1336 correct .. What is the turn around on his props ??

That's the number I used, in my case from the time I sent him the baseline prop to measure until I got them back was 7 weeks but a week of that was the baseline prop traveling to him. The tweak or mod to my custom prop was 3 weeks but that was with shipping to and from KS/AZ so he didn't actually have it that long. I heard rumors about how slow he was and not answering phones but when I was dealing with him he answered the phone or called back and since I asked for a custom not on the shelf prop I don't think his timeline was bad either. The end product works very well with my boat too so I'm definitely happy there.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Do you think he might have one on the shelf that might work for mine ? I hate to wait that long to get and try one , it will be winter if I have to wait 6-7 weeks ..

 

[Carnivalride]

Do you think he might have one on the shelf that might work for mine ? I hate to wait that long to get and try one , it will be winter if I have to wait 6-7 weeks ..

I'd recommend calling and talking to him, he'll ask all kinds of questions and boat set up so have all your measurements ready.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

OK I will measure the boat and get those measurements and have my Dyno sheet handy also

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

OK-- I just bit the Bullet and having  a new prop being made right now .. It will be here in about a week to week and half .. I talked to Dallas and told him what the boat is doing and he said I was pushing the nose over and blowing a rooster tail and he could fix me up with a prop that should fix that.. A little smaller diameter but with a little bigger blade  .. I told him what I had for engine and boat and he ask some more questions and said he had a pretty good ideal what i needed for a prop .. I told him it had a Cole prop on it and he knew exactly what it was .. I told him it was a BGF prop and I could not get it up under the boat anymore and he understood ..  So maybe this next outing the boat  will wake up .. So now go back and reset the plates to 1/4 up , pull the prop off ,that is  so much fun because I have to loosen the coupler on the prop shaft to get the prop puller on it .. FUN FUN .. 

 

[jimsplace]

Loren
I know that generally 1/4" up is around where a lot of the runner flats end up.
The Cole TR-4's have a little more rocker than most and you tend to run a little more up, not a lot, but some.
Mine is more.

I have always heard to use nickels for moving the prop around, but why use nickels?
A nickel is smaller than the prop shaft and looks like it could create a balance issue.
Maybe i'm just a high roller, but I use a quarter.  It's slightly less than an inch in diameter and about the same thickness.
I did have to cut a notch for the key.

Billy
I find it hard to believe your boat is off much, if any.
I've seen it run many times and it just looks too good.

As far as the plate, if it's running wet, then by all means adjust the plate.
It may be that it needs more up plate and 1/2 turn more or less may be appropriate.
When it starts getting close, you'll find even 1 flat of the turnbuckle will make a difference.
The water needs to be flat with no other boat wakes or rollers.  A small chop is probably OK.
    :smile17:

 

[jimsplace]

OK-- I just bit the Bullet and having  a new prop being made right now .. It will be here in about a week to week and half .. I talked to Dallas and told him what the boat is doing and he said I was pushing the nose over and blowing a rooster tail and he could fix me up with a prop that should fix that.. A little smaller diameter but with a little bigger blade  .. I told him what I had for engine and boat and he ask some more questions and said he had a pretty good ideal what i needed for a prop .. I told him it had a Cole prop on it and he knew exactly what it was .. I told him it was a BGF prop and I could not get it up under the boat anymore and he understood ..  So maybe this next outing the boat  will wake up .. So now go back and reset the plates to 1/4 up , pull the prop off ,that is  so much fun because I have to loosen the coupler on the prop shaft to get the prop puller on it .. FUN FUN ..

Billy
I'm glad you're getting a new prop.
It's interesting how those who have been around for a while seem to know more than we do and how to fix issues.
In this case, a prop built specifically for your boat, as it is now.
I would assume they have learned a little more about props than when our boats were built too.

Hopefully, when you get your prop I'll be ready by then.
I should be.
    :smile17:

 

[Carnivalride]

Loren
I know that generally 1/4" up is around where a lot of the runner flats end up.
The Cole TR-4's have a little more rocker than most and you tend to run a little more up, not a lot, but some.
Mine is more.

I have always heard to use nickels for moving the prop around, but why use nickels?
A nickel is smaller than the prop shaft and looks like it could create a balance issue.
Maybe i'm just a high roller, but I use a quarter.  It's slightly less than an inch in diameter and about the same thickness.
I did have to cut a notch for the key.

Billy
I find it hard to believe your boat is off much, if any.
I've seen it run many times and it just looks too good.

As far as the plate, if it's running wet, then by all means adjust the plate.
It may be that it needs more up plate and 1/2 turn more or less may be appropriate.
When it starts getting close, you'll find even 1 flat of the turnbuckle will make a difference.
The water needs to be flat with no other boat wakes or rollers.  A small chop is probably OK.
    :smile17:

Jim maybe I'm all wet but I thought the TR4 had less rocker than say a TR2 but it had a deeper runner typically refered to as a 7/8. Since I don't own one I won't argue on either of those points. lol

For reference my Hondo with the modified bottom is only running the plates 5/32 up. I'm just saying in my experience and of course it depends on the amount or rocker the boat has but I had better luck moving the prop forward than raising the plates.

As far as nickels, they're cheap easy and don't rust, I have machined spacers with a threaded center for removal and the keyway notch cut in them but of course that's overkill but the new set up isn't running any spacers.

If I understood right Billy made a 200hp jump............ that'll change the set up a bit.  :smile30:

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Jim All I know is it was running pretty wet Saturday and Wayne had the best side view sitting in his boat about 100 ft away and he said I was running really wet and could not see the skag at all .. That was with the plate up about 3/4 inch .. That is too much .. I am not getting the lift I need out of this old prop .. So I don't think raising the plate is going to help me anymore ..
Two year ago I had 850 HP with the 13.6:1 engine  and this year I have 950 HP pump gas deal  .. the year I had about 1/2 the skag showing was at Tawakoni and that was  the E-85 engine and I estimated it about 750 HP .. I never really got to see what the boat would do with the 850 HP engine when  it broke the retainers
I will feel better having a new prop under the old boat any way .. Dallas knew pretty much what I needed when I told him what the boat was doing and the changes I made to it .. Let see what she will do in two weeks if I get the prop by then  Sept 26 I am hoping to go test ..

 

[jimsplace]

Jim All I know is it was running pretty wet Saturday and Wayne had the best side view sitting in his boat about 100 ft away and he said I was running really wet and could not see the skag at all .. That was with the plate up about 3/4 inch .. That is too much .. I am not getting the lift I need out of this old prop .. So I don't think raising the plate is going to help me anymore ..
Two year ago I had 850 HP with the 13.6:1 engine  and this year I have 950 HP pump gas deal  .. the year I had about 1/2 the skag showing was at Tawakoni and that was  the E-85 engine and I estimated it about 750 HP .. I never really got to see what the boat would do with the 850 HP engine when  it broke the retainers
I will feel better having a new prop under the old boat any way .. Dallas knew pretty much what I needed when I told him what the boat was doing and the changes I made to it .. Let see what she will do in two weeks if I get the prop by then  Sept 26 I am hoping to go test ..

I feel better that you are getting the new prop too.
You will know how much it's been used and how.

These prop guys seem to know the props and what we need pretty well and tend to work with us to get where we want to be.
Being up 3/4 inch does seem a bit high, but then it all depends on how you measure.
We can compare our set-ups as they should be similar.

As far as how much up plate there is, I've run the same in mine from when I was told where I would end up.
Mine may be able to be improved on, but it seems to like where it is.
Power wise, I don't think there is much difference from yours and mine.
    :smile17:

 

[jimsplace]

Loren
I know that generally 1/4" up is around where a lot of the runner flats end up.
The Cole TR-4's have a little more rocker than most and you tend to run a little more up, not a lot, but some.
Mine is more.

I have always heard to use nickels for moving the prop around, but why use nickels?
A nickel is smaller than the prop shaft and looks like it could create a balance issue.
Maybe i'm just a high roller, but I use a quarter.  It's slightly less than an inch in diameter and about the same thickness.
I did have to cut a notch for the key.

Billy
I find it hard to believe your boat is off much, if any.
I've seen it run many times and it just looks too good.

As far as the plate, if it's running wet, then by all means adjust the plate.
It may be that it needs more up plate and 1/2 turn more or less may be appropriate.
When it starts getting close, you'll find even 1 flat of the turnbuckle will make a difference.
The water needs to be flat with no other boat wakes or rollers.  A small chop is probably OK.
    :smile17:

Jim maybe I'm all wet but I thought the TR4 had less rocker than say a TR2 but it had a deeper runner typically referred to as a 7/8. Since I don't own one I won't argue on either of those points. lol

For reference my Hondo with the modified bottom is only running the plates 5/32 up. I'm just saying in my experience and of course it depends on the amount or rocker the boat has but I had better luck moving the prop forward than raising the plates.

As far as nickels, they're cheap easy and don't rust, I have machined spacers with a threaded center for removal and the keyway notch cut in them but of course that's overkill but the new set up isn't running any spacers.

If I understood right Billy made a 200hp jump............ that'll change the set up a bit.  :smile30:

:smile16:
Loren
Yep, your all wet on this one. LOL
Jim Lang did a comprehensive review on the history of the Coles a couple of years ago on Performance Boats.
For those of us who have Coles, I found it very interesting.
The TR-2 had the least rocker, the 3 had the most and the 4 had less than the 3 but more than the 2.
The Tr-6 had a TR 2 bottom and a TR 4 top.

Just about everyone refers to the TR 4 as having a 7/8 runner, but according to Jim Lang we're measuring in the wrong place.  He says it's actually a 1" runner, but it's measured further up under the boat.
It's still 7/8" where the plates are.

Jim Lang worked at Cole and worked on the hull designs.  He seems to be the expert on these things.
It seems like all of the runner bottoms are a knock off of someone else's.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Jim All I know is it was running pretty wet Saturday and Wayne had the best side view sitting in his boat about 100 ft away and he said I was running really wet and could not see the skag at all .. That was with the plate up about 3/4 inch .. That is too much .. I am not getting the lift I need out of this old prop .. So I don't think raising the plate is going to help me anymore ..
Two year ago I had 850 HP with the 13.6:1 engine  and this year I have 950 HP pump gas deal  .. the year I had about 1/2 the skag showing was at Tawakoni and that was  the E-85 engine and I estimated it about 750 HP .. I never really got to see what the boat would do with the 850 HP engine when  it broke the retainers
I will feel better having a new prop under the old boat any way .. Dallas knew pretty much what I needed when I told him what the boat was doing and the changes I made to it .. Let see what she will do in two weeks if I get the prop by then  Sept 26 I am hoping to go test ..

I feel better that you are getting the new prop too.
You will know how much it's been used and how.

These prop guys seem to know the props and what we need pretty well and tend to work with us to get where we want to be.
Being up 3/4 inch does seem a bit high, but then it all depends on how you measure.
We can compare our set-ups as they should be similar.

As far as how much up plate there is, I've run the same in mine from when I was told where I would end up.
Mine may be able to be improved on, but it seems to like where it is.
Power wise, I don't think there is much difference from yours and mine.
    :smile17:

I would love to compare the plate setting to yours  when we are at the lake .. I am old school and just use a 1/4 key stock on top of my straight edge .. I have it marked to how far it goes under the boat so it is the same each time .. I am tapping a hole and installing a screw in the end of it this weekend to make it a little easier to do the same thing .. I am planning to set it 1/4 or 5/16 up all the way across this weekend .. I think that will be a good starting point with the new prop coming.. And speaking of .. Dallas got busy and built me a prop yesterday . I hope to have it in my hands next week some time .. The new prop is suppose to give me more RPM and also help lift the front of the boat and not the back ..  I am pretty sure my old prop was lifting the tail of the boat and the more power I put to it , the more it lifted the tail .. That would also explain why I could never get rid of that rooster tail .. I am hoping this new prop will help the boat all the way around .. If not I still fell good about getting a new one . My prop is 25 years old and it worries me when i make hard runs on it .. It will be sent to Dallas and he will clean and tune it up for me for a back up prop .. I am getting excited again to get the boat back on the water ..

 

[ChryslerJet]

I would love to compare the plate setting to yours  when we are at the lake .. I am old school and just use a 1/4 key stock on top of my straight edge .. I have it marked to how far it goes under the boat so it is the same each time .. I am tapping a hole and installing a screw in the end of it this weekend to make it a little easier to do the same thing .. I am planning to set it 1/4 or 5/16 up all the way across this weekend .. I think that will be a good starting point with the new prop coming.. And speaking of .. Dallas got busy and built me a prop yesterday . I hope to have it in my hands next week some time .. The new prop is suppose to give me more RPM and also help lift the front of the boat and not the back ..  I am pretty sure my old prop was lifting the tail of the boat and the more power I put to it , the more it lifted the tail .. That would also explain why I could never get rid of that rooster tail .. I am hoping this new prop will help the boat all the way around .. If not I still fell good about getting a new one . My prop is 25 years old and it worries me when i make hard runs on it .. It will be sent to Dallas and he will clean and tune it up for me for a back up prop .. I am getting excited again to get the boat back on the water ..

Awesome news I can't wait to see it run again and maybe catch another ride in it.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

I got to get busy tonight and get the old prop off . I hate pulling the prop ... Do not have enough room for the prop puller between the strut and the prop .. So I have to loosen the couple and slide the shaft back .. Oh well .. May need a space or shim for the new prop in case I need to pull it off later , the blades are forward more on the hub and I think when i do need to pull it off in the future , the puller may hit the blades.. Oh well , I am getting ahead of myself now ..

 

[Carnivalride]

I got to get busy tonight and get the old prop off . I hate pulling the prop ... Do not have enough room for the prop puller between the strut and the prop .. So I have to loosen the couple and slide the shaft back .. Oh well .. May need a space or shim for the new prop in case I need to pull it off later , the blades are forward more on the hub and I think when i do need to pull it off in the future , the puller may hit the blades.. Oh well , I am getting ahead of myself now ..

Billy if you have to loosen the coupler to pull the prop why not pull the propshaft out and cut an 1/8" off that strut so you won't have to loosen the coupler and pull the shaft back next time? Also if you need strut bushings that would be a great time to do it.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

I was thinking about doing that .. I was waiting to see how the new prop is sitting on the shaft first .. I had Dallas throw in a set of bushings just in case I need to change them out while I have it apart . I will have to cut the strut while in place with a hack saw , saw-zall because I am not pulling it off to cut it ..I don't think I can get to all the bolts under the engine or fuel tank..
Loren with the ears moved up on the hub , will a regular prop puller be able to pull the new prop off or will it hit the blades .. I am thinking I might have to make a shim or something to get the puller away from the blade when i need to pull it off in the future .. It is close to hitting on my old prop .. 

 

[Carnivalride]

I was thinking about doing that .. I was waiting to see how the new prop is sitting on the shaft first .. I had Dallas throw in a set of bushings just in case I need to change them out while I have it apart . I will have to cut the strut while in place with a hack saw , saw-zall because I am not pulling it off to cut it ..I don't think I can get to all the bolts under the engine or fuel tank..
Loren with the ears moved up on the hub , will a regular prop puller be able to pull the new prop off or will it hit the blades .. I am thinking I might have to make a shim or something to get the puller away from the blade when i need to pull it off in the future .. It is close to hitting on my old prop ..

In my experience it depends on the prop and prop puller, I'm shotting about 50/50 on that.......