Going BIG!

[spd500]

Not too many of the lake boats around here are running much more than 550 HP , but there are some . To get 550 out of a LS is just barely getting started , there is alot more power to be had with not too much investment .

I think a 750-850 horsepower turboed LS would be a pretty easy target to hit and still be reliable . There are tons of guys running at that power level in thier street cars with LS motors , and still using the cars as regular street cars .

 

[jimsplace]

Not too many of the lake boats around here are running much more than 550 HP , but there are some . To get 550 out of a LS is just barely getting started , there is alot more power to be had with not too much investment .

I think a 750-850 horsepower turboed LS would be a pretty easy target to hit and still be reliable . There are tons of guys running at that power level in thier street cars with LS motors , and still using the cars as regular street cars .

Anyone running 750-850 horsepower in a turbo LS motor that you know?  How much would the fuel injection and turbo alone cost?  That of course would not include the cost of a very well built LS motor.  If you stop and think about it, that is about 2 horsepower per cubic inch.  That engine would not be the daily driver usually, not that it can't be done, but not easily.

 

[spd500]

I personally wouldn't do it with fuel injection , so I am not sure what the bigger injectors and throttle body would cost. The fuel system is about the same as feeding a 750-850HP big block , so we won't go into that .

Here is one good example of making big numbers on a LS based motor in a street car , but the dyno numbers are at the tires not the flywheel. Real numbers would likely be alot higher at the flywheel .

18 lbs, and it made 800.8 hp.

This is a stock(Z06 cammed) 5.3, and twin 61 MasterPower turbos in the 67 NovaWagon.

Stock rod bolts,stock ring gap,stock tty head bolts.

Here is the dyno sheet and a pic of the car:
http://dynosport.com/overall/7.htm

 

[spd500]

This one is a stock motor in a daily driver car  :smile30:

This is my daily driver '99 C5 M6, factory 110k mile engine, stock head gaskets & head bolts, stock rod bolts, stock TB, stock MAF, LS6 intake, C6 LS3 manifolds, Torquer V3 cam w/111 Lobe sep (not a typo), TSP springs & pushrods, twin walbro's in-tank, 60lb injectors, Snow meth kit, Comp turbo's version of a T78, McLeod Twin Disc, and that's all I can think of right now.

No intercooler (yet), 110 unleaded (cheap insurance), 14.5lbs of boost, 13degrees timing, 711rwhp @ 5900 / 645rwtq, full boost by 3800.

Here is a link to the web page for the build :
http://www.unleashed-performance.com/unleashed-810whp-turbo-c5-project/

 

[spd500]

How about 1020HP at the tires with a forged bottom end and a cam swap ? Stock heads and stock intake .

Forged LS7 block with Callies Crank/Rods, Racetech Piston, Stock LS7 Head with Stainless Valves, Stock LS7 Intake/TB. TTIX Turbo kit with 62/65 turbo W/ .84 Turbonetics Exh housings

RPM TR6060 Trans. RPS Triple Carbon Clutch

This is on 93 Pump Gas with Meth

http://64.19.142.10/i121.photobucket.com/albums/o225/Frans402/MohammedTTC6Z1.jpg

 

[spd500]

Not sure why they let out of it early on this one , but it made 1172 HP before they let out . Could have gone alot higher guessing by the dyno sheet . Not to mention its RWHP , so the real numbers would be alot higher .

98 SS Twin Turbo Black M6 Street car
441ci LSX KYTP Twin PT67 CEA Turbo set up
LMR Custom Cam
1030rwhp@ 17.5lbs on pump gas
1172rwhp@ 21lbs 93/112 mix (spinning on dyno)

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1502719-441ci-lsx-twin-turbo-new-s-precision-67-cea-vs-turbonetics-tc70.html

 

[77Jet Star]

The only articles I have found on this suject are car related.I have always heard there is no substitution for cubic inches .I have been on a bunch of forums and most agree with my earlier statment.If you want big horse power go with big cubic inches.This was one of the many opinions along the same line I have found.The Ls is very limited on what you can do with it after a point.If you are happy with moderate power and on a budget it is the one for you.If you want big power now or later as your buget allows go with the big block and add to it as yor budget allows.Just my .02.


...
Well this is not as cut and dried as it seems. What are your power goals and your budget? That is the deciding factor right there.

Under about 650hp, I'd say ls motor. But when you're shooting for big numbers, a BBC is the only way to go.

Peoples first objection is the weight. I don't think the weight is a big deal. First, an aluminum headed BBC weighs about the same as an iron headed sbc. Second that weight is mostly in the block, ie down low and mostly behind the front wheels, ie near the cars center of gravity.

I don't see why people get an ls engine and then throw an sc on it. They should just go BBC. The sc and intercooler is heavy, and that weight is carried up high. I bet if you ran the numbers, an sc'ed ls and a aluminum headed BBC would weigh about the same, and the BBC would carry that weight lower, which would potentially mean better handling.

Also, with the sheer size of the bores in a BBC the heads will flow better than any ls will. 400+cfm is pretty common for a BBC head, while 300cfm is about average for an ls head.

So in short, if you are on a budget ls all the way. If you have moderate power goals, ls all the way. But if you want something above and beyond - we're talking 800+ streetable hp, a built BBC is the best way to go. And with a good trans, it'll still return 16 mpg.

Food for thought.

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6D9 Matt09-08-2011, 02:38 PM
I agree... if you are looking for 650+ hp for a better price, you cant go wrong with BBC. If I was looking for 500-600 hp, then yeah I would probably consider an LSx setup.

 

[spd500]

If you firmly believe that you just absolutely need the bigger inch motor then start out with a LS454 and put the power adders on it.  There are lots of options, but as for reasonable budget motors the LS based motors are hard to beat.  Even well past 650 HP.

 

[77Jet Star]

If you firmly believe that you just absolutely need the bigger inch motor then start out with a LS454 and put the power adders on it.  There are lots of options, but as for reasonable budget motors the LS based motors are hard to beat.  Even well past 650 HP.

I think time will tell if this is the new direction for everyone .I personally dont see it happening .But look forward to you getting one on the water.And sure it will be perfect choice for your application.  :smile16:

 

[Patchman]

Just give me a BBF and I'm happy. I think people lose how much  :smile13: they really dump in a project. By the time it is all said and done it takes  :smile13: to run fast. Small motors don't make big torque with out expensive power adders. You don't make 14 pounds of boost with a $300. turbo. And the fuel system to feed 14 PSI isn't cheap either. So speed isn't cheap how ever you look at it. I bet Bobbie's $1200. motor will make more power than any of these LS motors for the money he has in it so far. Just sayin! :smile16:

 

[spd500]

I agree, for what he has in it he has a great start to a nice motor.

I am not really hating on big blocks, I really like them.  I am just pointing out what can be done with the modern motors as a reference,  its easier to make big power when you start out with more technology already built into the base motor.  I also expect that we will eventually start seeing people using the newer Ford motors to make big power, and even the new Hemi's.

 

[Devilman]

Just pointing out the obvious  :smile30:

Ya, not really. That might be your opinion, but that don't make it fact. :wink: But you are doin something different, so you got that goin for ya...

 

[Last Mohecian]

How about 1020HP at the tires with a forged bottom end and a cam swap ? Stock heads and stock intake .

Forged LS7 block with Callies Crank/Rods, Racetech Piston, Stock LS7 Head with Stainless Valves, Stock LS7 Intake/TB. TTIX Turbo kit with 62/65 turbo W/ .84 Turbonetics Exh housings

RPM TR6060 Trans. RPS Triple Carbon Clutch

This is on 93 Pump Gas with Meth

http://64.19.142.10/i121.photobucket.com/albums/o225/Frans402/MohammedTTC6Z1.jpg

I can promise you 1000 HP could be made in a BBC for the same money maybe less than this build.  Once you get to this level it is a completely different ball game.  This build does not help your argument at all.  LS7 parts are not cheap.  Same with most of the other builds you posted over 700 HP.  It is generally accepted that drive train loss is about 12%.  No one is saying it can't be done.  They are just saying at the level over 700 HP or so there is no more advantage to the LS platform and quite possible the BBC or BBF is the better choice.  The money gets to be about the same maybe less for a BBC or BBF at that level.

 

[TintMan]

I want to see an LS based jet on the water kickin the Big Blocks azz...then i and others will take note. Until then its all speculation. Cars and boats are different beasts...cars don't float! :smile14:
I do agree that as the years pass,there will be more LS performance builds for the water.We all know that when it comes down to it...for some guys its about goin fast and not about the money...which is one in the same...IMO! think.gif

 

[Knotty Girl]

For me, I am all about fuel economy.  think.gif

 

[customtouch]

For me, I am all about fuel economy.  think.gif

:grin:

 

[jimsplace]

For me, I am all about fuel economy.  think.gif

I agree!!  It has always been about the fuel economy.
Now, Lets line then up and see who is quicker.  If you always run slowest, was it worth it?  :smile17:  :smile17:

 

[Disturbed]

For me, I am all about fuel economy.  think.gif

I agree!!  It has always been about the fuel economy.
Now, Lets line then up and see who is quicker.  If you always run slowest, was it worth it?  :smile17:  :smile17:

The two guys with the biggest blowers are talking fuel economy....

That's just  crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif

 

[jimsplace]

For me, I am all about fuel economy.  think.gif

I agree!!  It has always been about the fuel economy.
Now, Lets line then up and see who is quicker.  If you always run slowest, was it worth it?  :smile17:  :smile17:

The two guys with the biggest blowers are talking fuel economy....

That's just  crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif

I sure hope when you are talking blowers, you're refering to supercharcers or turbos and not us personally.  Or is it both?    :smile14: :smile14:

 

[Patchman]

For me, I am all about fuel economy.  think.gif

I agree!!  It has always been about the fuel economy.
Now, Lets line then up and see who is quicker.  If you always run slowest, was it worth it?  :smile17:  :smile17:

The two guys with the biggest blowers are talking fuel economy....

That's just  crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif crazy.gif

I sure hope when you are talking blowers, you're refering to supercharcers or turbos and not us personally.  Or is it both?    :smile14: :smile14:

Now that is pretty good rite there! clap.gif :smile16: