Chrysler Conqueror SIII with Chrysler Jet

[jdeaton]

Sounds good to me. You just need to get a plan and stay with it. Let me know if I can help.

 

[ChryslerJet]

Sounds good to me. You just need to get a plan and stay with it. Let me know if I can help.

Yeah the only major mod I have considered is cutting the hull right before the hump in the cap in the middle of the passenger area and stretching it 3-5 feet.  I know I am crazy.  But what I have decided is to put it back together as it is right now cause I dont want to go another season without it and if I feel I need to make it longer then I am going to do so.  The same thing with the engine and pump going to run it as is this season and see how it performs and then look at what I can learn and possibly modify for the next season.  I am going to have fun with it and enjoy it and will never get what i am putting into it back out of it.  when I reluctantly sold my cuda it was for half what I have into it.

 

[ChryslerJet]

Okay so being cooped up in the house all weekend got me thinking.  Well actually designing.  I had already thought about this a while back.  Well I have been working on a design for a very compact Overdrive gear setup which in our boats would give us two speeds.  So in my case it means once up to speed cut into second gear and cruise at 45-50 all day at half the RPM's or 2/3rds or whatever the gearing is setup as.  What I am working on would mount between the Flywheel and the H drive and be only 2 inches think Max.  I have had this idea since I used to drive my cuda on the street wanted an overdrive on that.  I could use one on my jag as well right now, that's part of the reason I have the Jag up for sell is I cant afford to drive it to work because of the gas it uses with only a 3 speed auto trans.

Anyways my thoughts to everyone here are does anyone think this would be something they would invest buying for their boat in such that I can justify the cost to make a single or multiple prototypes/versions? 

Also Does any one know a machine shop, fabrication shop, cnc mill that does good work and doesn't charge an arm and a leg to do it?  There are units for the automotive market right now that run $2500 a piece which take up 6 inches or more of space and I think I can build them for a lot less using less space and still be quite strong.  I had thought I had heard of a Lenco being used in a boat as well once.
Another reason for me thinking this is because I could also then use the motor I currently have sitting on the trailer and develop a similar gear setup for reversing the rotation which could reverse the output back to standard rotation after the flywheel and then a second gear setup to give me the two speeds.

So since I know everyone here is so vocal give me your thoughts and opinions.

 

[spd500]

The problem with that idea is that the motor needs to make enough power to turn the pump faster.  Its not like in a car, the faster you want to spin the pump the more power you need.

 

[ChryslerJet]

The problem with that idea is that the motor needs to make enough power to turn the pump faster.  Its not like in a car, the faster you want to spin the pump the more power you need.

That's very true you need to take that into consideration that the motor with the Overdrive will still be able to spin the pump at that speed.  Which means you have to think about your torque and torque curve when building the motor for that purpose.  In my case if and when I build the stroker motor might be a good time to make and test that theory as well since it will have a much larger and longer torque curve than the current motor.

 

[blazeracer]

An overdrive in a jet boat would be good with a turbo diesel motor that makes peak torque at 1,800 rpm, but in that case you would need a double overdrive to get the impeller up to 6k.

In theory, if an impeller needs 500 ft lbs to turn 6k rpm pushing a boat across the water, a motor that makes 500 ft lbs at 2,000 rpm should be able to get the impeller to 6k over driven 3 to 1 pushing that same boat, right? Good thought, but I don't think it will work, becaaaaaaaause......

Impellers want to be spun with high rpm horsepower. Torque x RPM = horsepower. My F250 Powerstroke makes like 225hp and 550+ foot pounds at 2,000 rpm. I don't think there is no way it would turn an overdriven impeller at 6,000.

I've always though it would be cool to run a turbo diesel with an overdrive, just to see if torque will really make it go.

I think if you overdrive a gas motor while it's  turning 5k and put in OD, you will lose speed. Your motor will drop out of its poweband and never get the impeller back to 5k.

That's my theory on it. nProbably way off, but hey, it's all good.

They just had a Trailblazer SS run a 12.39 with a turbo 6.0 on Pass Time. Those little LS small blocks make a lot of power.

 

[ChryslerJet]

An overdrive in a jet boat would be good with a turbo diesel motor that makes peak torque at 1,800 rpm, but in that case you would need a double overdrive to get the impeller up to 6k.

In theory, if an impeller needs 500 ft lbs to turn 6k rpm pushing a boat across the water, a motor that makes 500 ft lbs at 2,000 rpm should be able to get the impeller to 6k over driven 3 to 1 pushing that same boat, right? Good thought, but I don't think it will work, becaaaaaaaause......

Impellers want to be spun with high rpm horsepower. Torque x RPM = horsepower. My F250 Powerstroke makes like 225hp and 550+ foot pounds at 2,000 rpm. I don't think there is no way it would turn an overdriven impeller at 6,000.

I've always though it would be cool to run a turbo diesel with an overdrive, just to see if torque will really make it go.

I think if you overdrive a gas motor while it's  turning 5k and put in OD, you will lose speed. Your motor will drop out of its poweband and never get the impeller back to 5k.

That's my theory on it. nProbably way off, but hey, it's all good.

They just had a Trailblazer SS run a 12.39 with a turbo 6.0 on Pass Time. Those little LS small blocks make a lot of power.

Blaze  I appreciate the opinions that's why I posted it here to get everyone's thoughts.  It's all in the theory of the operation and sometimes there is only one thing to do which is to build it and see.  I guess If I do build it then it wouldn't be that hard to change out on the lake since All I would need to do is remove the bellhousing and driveshaft to install or remove.

 

[blazeracer]

I typed the above write up over two hours watching Man On Fire last night.. LOL

I would be very interested to see if it works. It just may get a few more MPH on the top end. On my boat, the motor has to be lifted and moved foreward three inches to get the driveshaft out.

 

[Last Mohecian]

http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-boats/98090-jet-boat-gear-box.html

Fair amount of info on putting a gear box in a jet.  People have put transmissions in jets.  Really no different than what you are talking about besides being thin.  There has not been a whole lot of benefit from it for a lake boat.  The only exception I can think of is the diesel endurance boats with a jet.

Post 45 gives the best explanation as to why it does not work.

 

[ChryslerJet]

http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-boats/98090-jet-boat-gear-box.html

Fair amount of info on putting a gear box in a jet.  People have put transmissions in jets.  Really no different than what you are talking about besides being thin.  There has not been a whole lot of benefit from it for a lake boat.  The only exception I can think of is the diesel endurance boats with a jet.

Post 45 gives the best explanation as to why it does not work.

Very good info and not disagreeing with anyone but there was one statement made that HP needed to push the boat at 40mph at 3500rpms that if rpms dropped to 2500 would still need the same HP at 2500 to go 40 as had at 3500.  Now given those numbers if the motor was built with the Torque and HP curves where that was the case then an overdrive should work in that case in therory but you have to take into account that the overdrive robs some HP from the engine.  It's something great to bench and would be cool to test out in theory.  I guess I will have to build a unit for my cars first then mod it for the boat later.

 

[Last Mohecian]

http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-boats/98090-jet-boat-gear-box.html

Fair amount of info on putting a gear box in a jet.  People have put transmissions in jets.  Really no different than what you are talking about besides being thin.  There has not been a whole lot of benefit from it for a lake boat.  The only exception I can think of is the diesel endurance boats with a jet.

Post 45 gives the best explanation as to why it does not work.

Very good info and not disagreeing with anyone but there was one statement made that HP needed to push the boat at 40mph at 3500rpms that if rpms dropped to 2500 would still need the same HP at 2500 to go 40 as had at 3500.  Now given those numbers if the motor was built with the Torque and HP curves where that was the case then an overdrive should work in that case in therory but you have to take into account that the overdrive robs some HP from the engine.  It's something great to bench and would be cool to test out in theory.  I guess I will have to build a unit for my cars first then mod it for the boat later.

You can throw anything you learned about a car out the window on this subject.  It would be no different than the results those guys already had with an OD.  Once you get a car up to speed it takes less work to keep it there.  The amount of work it takes to keep a jet boat at speed is damn near equal to the amount it takes to get it there.  The resistance of the water against the hull is very different than the resistance of a car going down the road.  With a car you are fighting wind resistance and rolling resistance of the bearings.  With a boat you are fighting the water resistance against the hull.  These forces are very different.  An easy way to demonstrate this is to take a piece of paper and slide it across a dry piece of glass.  Now wet the glass and try to slide the paper across it.  I am all for trying new things but this is something that has already been tried and proven not to work.

Hurry and get that boat done.  I want to see that jet at one of the GTG's this year.

 

[ChryslerJet]

You can throw anything you learned about a car out the window on this subject.  It would be no different than the results those guys already had with an OD.  Once you get a car up to speed it takes less work to keep it there.  The amount of work it takes to keep a jet boat at speed is damn near equal to the amount it takes to get it there.  The resistance of the water against the hull is very different than the resistance of a car going down the road.  With a car you are fighting wind resistance and rolling resistance of the bearings.  With a boat you are fighting the water resistance against the hull.  These forces are very different.  An easy way to demonstrate this is to take a piece of paper and slide it across a dry piece of glass.  Now wet the glass and try to slide the paper across it.  I am all for trying new things but this is something that has already been tried and proven not to work.

Hurry and get that boat done.  I want to see that jet at one of the GTG's this year.

Now that its drying out I can get some work done.  And yeah no new changes this year but you never know what crazy shiznit I will do in the future.

 

[ChryslerJet]

Well made a little progress this weekend.  Also took the family to the park and went crawfishing.  Here are some shots.
The wife and kids


Here is what I did this weekend.  I built some sawhorses to set the cap onto so I can work on it better.  Looks like all the underside bracing is intact but it is not fully glassed in nor is it tabbed in well.  I will be replacing it all.  Take a look at the pics.


some of the wood removed from the dash

 

[ChryslerJet]

Here are some more shots of the massive stress cracks


I also was able to remove the gauges and windshield


That last pic is the vinyl dash covering that was unpainted under the steering column cover.  It looks like this dash was a woodgrain dash in the first place.  I guess that's what it will have to go back to being.  Spd500 may have to get you to come over and help set it up.

 

[Last Mohecian]

This pic threw me.  I could not figure out how the hell that cap went back on with the windshield where it is.  Then I realized what was going on there.  LOL.

 

[ChryslerJet]

Okay so regarding the pump and the intake for the pump I finally got around to taking some pics of it.
Here is the output after the impeller I guess you can call this the bowl if I understand it right.


Here is the Impeller.


Here is the intake


The Intake Grate


The Intake tunnel


The Tunnel Hump you can see it right before the intake grate


That is the hump I am wondering if I need to straighten to get a straight shot into the intake grate or do I leave it there because that is a section that tends to create an air pocket when under speed.

Also the mating point to the back of the hull I wondered if I should forma scoop (shoe) into the fiberglass to aid in forcing more water into the intake at speed.  Or would that slow me down.

 

[ChryslerJet]

This pic threw me.  I could not figure out how the hell that cap went back on with the windshield where it is.  Then I realized what was going on there.  LOL.

Yeah I took the pics after I did everything including removing the windsheild.  I need to find another place to store the windshield not sure if I am going to tear it down or store it in one piece.  Obviously in one piece makes it much harder to store.

 

[Last Mohecian]

The Tunnel Hump you can see it right before the intake grate


That is the hump I am wondering if I need to straighten to get a straight shot into the intake grate or do I leave it there because that is a section that tends to create an air pocket when under speed.

Also the mating point to the back of the hull I wondered if I should forma scoop (shoe) into the fiberglass to aid in forcing more water into the intake at speed.  Or would that slow me down.

I would not change anything.  Chrysler engineers were pretty sharp.  That spoon (hump) directs water to the top of the intake.  It's called the Coanda effect.  Give me a minute to search youtube for a vid.  It uses an actual spoon to demonstrate perfectly what happens to the flow of water.  At the very least run it as is to get a base line.  Then you can make changes and see if it hurts or helps.  If you change it now you will never know if you helped or hurt it.


Here it is.  You can google it if you want more info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvLwqRCbGKY

 

[ChryslerJet]

The Tunnel Hump you can see it right before the intake grate


That is the hump I am wondering if I need to straighten to get a straight shot into the intake grate or do I leave it there because that is a section that tends to create an air pocket when under speed.

Also the mating point to the back of the hull I wondered if I should forma scoop (shoe) into the fiberglass to aid in forcing more water into the intake at speed.  Or would that slow me down.

I would not change anything.  Chrysler engineers were pretty sharp.  That spoon (hump) directs water to the top of the intake.  It's called the Coanda effect.  Give me a minute to search youtube for a vid.  It uses an actual spoon to demonstrate perfectly what happens to the flow of water.  At the very least run it as is to get a base line.  Then you can make changes and see if it hurts or helps.  If you change it now you will never know if you helped or hurt it.


Here it is.  You can google it if you want more info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvLwqRCbGKY

Matt thats what I was wondering based on what I have read.  But without confirmation that what I was seeing was what I was reading I wasnt sure.  Thanks for the confirmation.  It will stay.

 

[ChryslerJet]

Okay update not on the Boat but this update puts me closer to working on the boat this weekend.  Besides I think Patch and Knotty wanted to see the chopper.  I got the neck welded onto the chopper with the proper rake and this time its straight and looks good.  Also got the new 2" down tube welded on.  With the angle of the neck and low profile the tank had to be modified as well because it was hitting the neck.  Anyways here is a shot.  The motor is still in mockup and will sit a little higher.  Still need to make those brackets (6 in total).  Also need to still make the head light mount, the radiator mount and the front brake caliper mount.  Also need to figure out where to mount the front pegs and create the side covers from the Aluminum tread plate I have.  Lots of little things to do but some of that will go quickly.